Talk: MarkDilley

Activist slideshow

Let's work with JWSchmidt to connect the central wikicity to a meatball wiki bus tour. --NYetman 21:12, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Sorry I didn't see this message until now, October 2005.. oops!

Mark my name is David. Is there a wiki forum that unions can use to allow members to air their views on progress (or lack of) of negotiations with a large employer? I am looking for a wiki to show my union representatives the concept of a wiki.

If there is none then is your site available for a test/demo creation of pages?

BTW has your site include functions to have pages marked as read-only?

Thanks

David Oct24 UTC

Hi David, currently there is not a union wiki, I am in contact with a person that owns unionwiki.com though and a union president that is trying to build a wiki for the needs of a union. Maybe you could look at some of the political wiki, like the dKos wiki or the SourceWatch wiki. check out my delcious feed for wiki tutorials http://del.icio.us/MarkDilley/WikiTutorial

Best, MarkDilley

Admins[]

Hi, please see User talk:Nabarry for a note on admins and admin tasks. Thanks -- sannse (talk) 13:40, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Adminship[]

Hello, Mark!

Sannse responded to a couple of questions I had, and suggested that since the only admin on Activism has gone inactive, perhaps you and I should be knighted. (See her comments here.)

Are there any other active users? I notice some edits by a user called Chadlupkes, who doesn't seem to have a user profile. If there are any other active editors (I don't think so), they should also be considered for adminship.

Anyway, Sannse suggested you and I discuss it. I am all in favor of adminship privileges for both of us. I am ready to take on the responsibility involved in this. Are you? Let me know, and then we can let Sannse know. –Nabarry 07:05, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi Nicholas!

Thanks for the ping. I am fine with being an administrator of this activism wikia. I look forward to working collaboratively on this wiki with someone! What responsibilites are you suggesting though? Best, Mark

Hello, again, Mark. By responsibility, I just mean that I'm not going to abandon this project once others start working on it. Adminship is a set of powers, and also a set of obligations. By accepting adminship, we're promising to deal with problems as they come up. One reason this is important is that some things cannot be done without an admin - for example, the deletion of a useless page (e.g. one created for the sake of vandalism). For example, I created a subpage for my userpage that I didn't end up wanting, and couldn't delete it because I didn't have the authorization. I couldn't even ask anyone to delete it, since there are no longer any admins associated with this project. I put a note about it on my user page and figured I would get around to it eventually. Sannse, though, noticed the note (amazing, considering how hidden it was in my user profile), and deleted the page for me. If we're admins, we need to be willing to do stuff like that - take out the trash when it needs to be done. Y'know?

–Nicholas Barry

administrator status is ok[]

and I think I have it now.

Sysop[]

Hi, you now have sysop rights. You should see a couple of extra tabs, and be able to edit protected pages. It's a good idea to read the administrators guide and Wikia:Help:Improving your Wikia. If you need any help please give me or one of the others in the community team a shout. Good luck with the project. -- sannse (talk) 07:51, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Lisa!

Real Names, Afghanistan, and contributions[]

Hey, Mark. I moved our discussion about real names to my talk page, since it wasn't directly relevant to the improvement of the Main Page. If you object, let me know.

Also, I'll be in Afghanistan from June 14 until around July 4, or maybe a few days later. So I won't be able to make contributions during this time.

I have tried to recruit some people to work on the project with us. I sent out emails on the Wikipedia and Meta-Wiki mailing lists, and got a few responses. Also, I asked a friend who is active in Latina circles, and recently with Immigrant Rights action. I'm hoping to get her to contribute some stuff based on her experience.

Mark, I moved the real names discussion again. Normally I think it is a bad thing to move stuff all over the place repeatedly. But Angela (co-founder of Wikia) commented on our discussion, and suddenly I felt that people other than you and I might want to make arguments, too. It isn't fair to expect them to have to go to my talk page for that. So I created a policies and practices page, and put our discussion on the talk. You should read Angela's comment if you haven't already. Nicholas Barry 06:42, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Housekeeping[]

Hello, Mark.

There were a few things I wanted to suggest in terms of housekeeping. First of all, you shouldn't put double brackets around terms in order to emphasize them (as you did in our real names discussion). Putting double brackets around them makes a link out of them, which suggests that someone should ultimately create an article so that this link will no longer be broken. If you want to emphasize something, just italicize it, bold it, or do both.

Also, why do you sometimes mash words together? (For example, "ExpertModel" and "CreativeClass".) I am aware that this is a linking convention on some wikis, but that convention isn't necessary on a Wikia and is bound to confuse some users. It is especially troublesome because if someone creates a page by following that broken link, it will be titled "ExpertMode." Then if someone does a search under "Expert Mode", the article won't come up. Links and articles should be written normally (with words separated) so that they can be easily found, and so that the writing looks natural.

I notice you moved some pages around to clarify things a bit (I mean The Theory of Infinite Struggle and What Do We Do Now?). But you didn't actually delete the old pages; you just wrote "DeletedPage" (which you managed to both mash together and make a link out of...). These pages should just be deleted. We don't want a million empty pages to accumulate just because we decide to change some article titles. Changing titles or locations is, of course, fine - but we should get rid of the old pages that no longer have anything on them. I'll go ahead and do it if you have no objections. If there are links to the page you are about to delete, of course (which you can check in the sidebar: "What links here"), you should reroute them.

– Nicholas Barry (Nabarry) 22:04, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi Nicholas, I have been using wikis for over 4 years and am quite aware of markup language. I am also interested in CamelCase as a wiki norm. As far as deleting pages, there are links to those pages from outside the wiki, so I don't want them deleted yet, otherwise, I would have deleted them :-). MarkDilley

Hello, Mark. I didn't mean to impugn upon your wiki experience. I don't experience with other wikis, so I wasn't sure if the markup was the same or not. No offense intended.

Is there some reason for using CamelCase? As I understand it, its most logical usage is in programming languages where spaces are not good, and underscores are a hassle. But in a Wikia, spaces are fine. In fact, you don't even have the advantage on this wiki that you might on another that automatically creates a link when you use CamelCase; here you have to do the double brackets anyway (as you know). So...what are the reasons for using CamelCase, other than the fact that you might be used to it? I can think of one reason not to use camelcase: users unfamiliar with the custom (like myself) will find it confusing. And someone searching for a topic or page won't be able to find it easily without knowing to look by using CamelCase. In fact, try searching "List of Activists" or even "activists"...the ActivistList page doesn't come up. If we want to make this project easy for activists who are not familiar with specific wiki traditions, we shouldn't stick to something that only a small group of people would be familiar with. And even if the tradition is widespread among wiki users (I don't know how widespread it is), an increasing number of wiki users are being trained on Wikipedia, which does not use CamelCase. In any case, as I said, many of our users are poeple who may never have edited a wiki before. People like that need this wiki to be easy to use and to operate...and CamelCase is non-intuitive.

Anyway, I think there are two different issues here. One is whether or not we should use CamelCase as a tradition for naming pages (like the existing ActivistList). The other issue is whether or not regular terms should be turned into links, such as "DeletedPage" or "real names". As I said before, to turn something like that into a link suggests that a page should be created at the other end of that link, when in fact we don't want pages for those. I'll go ahead and break links like that so that other users who come on aren't confused.

On another note, that makes sense about not deleting pages if you have other, outside links to them. I'll go ahead and add re-routes to the places you moved them.

Hi Nicholas, no offence taken, just trying to establish that I know wikis! :-) For me CamelCase is an important aspect of wiki, and yes, you are right, I still have to put friggin brackets around the link (MediaWiki phased it out CamelCase from the software several versions ago). It is important because I believe it teaches link language. putting thought out names on new pages, not sentances like List of activists. In another wiki that I participate in, we are working out a CamelCase or free linking or both kind of policy. I asked somewhere if there were a set of policies about how to run a wikia wiki, if so please point out, if not is there room to be different here? As for my intentional linking of things that you don't think should be linked to, I don't know why you are asserting "suggests that a page should be created at the other end of that link, when in fact we don't want pages for those." I am only trying to understand my voice here, not trying to be difficult. Best, Mark

[1:26pm] <mindspillage> waves to MarkDilley also: I recognize your name from MeatBall, though you've seen me as KatWalsh...
[1:27pm] <MarkDilley> Hello KatWalsh or Mindspillage!
[1:28pm] <MarkDilley> the Wikipedian connection! ;-)
[1:28pm] <mindspillage> Indeed. :-)
[1:29pm] <mindspillage> So you say you've been working with some, eh? How's that going?
[1:29pm] <MessedRocker> I'm JamesHare on Meatball, even though I don't go there often
[1:29pm] <GreenReaper> Ahh, MeatBall . . .
[1:29pm] <MarkDilley> Hello JamesHare / MessedRocker
[1:30pm] <MarkDilley> Well, it is going ok, lots of friction to work through
[1:30pm] <MarkDilley> which is ok for some longer term relationships, but I think very frustrating for all involved in newer ones
[1:30pm] <mindspillage> Always; what's the task?
[1:31pm] wasiim joined the chat room.
[1:31pm] <MessedRocker> I really wish I could start up my medical wiki on Wikia but the problem is that if I start it as a Scratchpad project then I won't have the power to protect my own pages
[1:31pm] <gil> are you a doctor?
[1:31pm] <mindspillage> MessedRocker: you've seen medicine.wikia.com, yes? I don't think what you were planning with the protected version fits with our policies, though...
[1:32pm] <MarkDilley> This brings me to the question, are wikia wiki under the same guidelines/rules that Wikipedia is?
[1:32pm] <mindspillage> MarkDilley: no.
[1:32pm] <mindspillage> MarkDilley: some, that are applicable, but NPOV is not a requirement, for example.
[1:33pm] <MessedRocker> mindspillage: Well I'll be. Someone beat me to it.
[1:33pm] <mindspillage> ::laughs::
[1:33pm] <MarkDilley> I was under the assumption (yes I know the old adage) that the developing community could sort out the standards for the wiki
[1:34pm] <MessedRocker> that's usually how it works
[1:34pm] <mindspillage> MarkDilley: for the most part yes; unless they conflict with the policies and guidelines that Wikia does have.
[1:34pm] <GreenReaper> It's pretty flexible. Some communities have done odd things that wouldn't jive over at somewhere like Wikipedia, but which worked out for them.
[1:35pm] <mindspillage> wonders if he is going to ask about UseRealNames... which is a sticky one.
[1:35pm] wasiim left the chat room. (Remote closed the connection)
[1:35pm] <MessedRocker> Wikipedia should be able to actually export a category of articles onto a Wikia
[1:35pm] <MarkDilley> nope
[1:36pm] <MessedRocker> you know, community-endorsed article eviction
[1:36pm] <MessedRocker> for extreme fancruft
[1:36pm] <mindspillage> MessedRocker: Hm. Interesting thought. :-)
[1:36pm] <MarkDilley> I think that RealNamesPreffered works though as a style of interaction on wiki
[1:36pm] <MessedRocker> Some articles simply don't belong on Wikipedia, but that doesn't mean they're useless
[1:36pm] <mindspillage> AfD is probably a good place to find Wikia recruits...
[1:37pm] <mindspillage> I am not anonymous, but I prefer my handle because it's unique... too many people with my name in my demographic I could be confused with...
[1:37pm] <GreenReaper> hehehe
[1:38pm] <GreenReaper> MarkDilley: I put my views on "real" names at the bottom of http://www.usemod.com/cgi-bin/mb.pl?ImportanceOfIdentityInOnlineCommunities
[1:38pm] <MarkDilley> I am sure I have read it, going back...
[1:38pm] <MarkDilley> now
[1:38pm] <MarkDilley> tx
[1:38pm] <GreenReaper> I think that using an established *identity* is important.
[1:39pm] <mindspillage> ::nod:: Any identity you care about the reputation of...
[1:39pm] <GreenReaper> though frankly I'd be prepared to accept someone who wanted to build up an identity on the wiki themselves, it'd just take longer without external confirmation.
[1:39pm] <MessedRocker> I just used my RealName because I'm not one to break TheRules in front of TheCommunity
[1:40pm] <GreenReaper> for example, I have no idea who "Sine" is on WikiFur. Yet, they are an administrator, because they have contributed tirelessly and made good edits.
[1:40pm] <GreenReaper> I like bending them to fit my preferences. I guess that's why I prefer Wikia to Wikipedia - you get the chance to make your own rules. :-)
[1:40pm] <GreenReaper> or at least rules more suitable for your community.
[1:41pm] LordTBT left the chat room. (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[1:41pm] <MarkDilley> GreenReaper:I don't think that is a problem - I am not sure LionKimbro has changed his name officially, but that is how he is known, on and offline.  Do your offline friends know you as GreenReaper?
[1:41pm] <mindspillage> GreenReaper: hey, you do on Wikipedia too... it just takes 50MB of discussion and a holy war. :-)
[1:41pm] <GreenReaper> MarkDilley: My *boss* knows me as GreenReaper. :-)
[1:41pm] <GreenReaper> though also as Laurence.
[1:41pm] <MarkDilley> Ah, the *most* important person!
[1:41pm] <mindspillage> ::laughs::
[1:41pm] <MarkDilley> ;-)
[1:41pm] <GreenReaper> he probably thinks of me more the former than the latter.
[1:42pm] <mindspillage> My high school band director kept calling me by handle...
[1:42pm] <GreenReaper> has his con badge on the wall, which helps.
[1:42pm] <MessedRocker> GreenReaper: There's a Wikia for furries!?
[1:43pm] <mindspillage> MessedRocker: where have you been? :-)
[1:43pm] <mindspillage> It's one of the most successful ones...
[1:43pm] <MessedRocker> THIS IS TRUE LUNACY!
[1:43pm] <MessedRocker> SIGNED RELEASE FORM
[1:43pm] <MarkDilley> But I don't want to stay on RealNames - it is sticky.  I am interested in handles being attached to real names, although outside of IRC (say on a wiki)  I wouldn't participate in a conversation with pseudonyms.
[1:43pm] <GreenReaper> MessedRocker: Indeed! It just got referenced in the PIttsburgh City Paper.
[1:43pm] <mindspillage> ...with the wrong URL?
[1:43pm] <MarkDilley> I am also interested in stirring the pot when it comes to CamelCase
[1:43pm] <MarkDilley> :-)
[1:44pm] <GreenReaper> Yes, well, you can't expect them to get everything right.
[1:44pm] <MessedRocker> CamelCase is great at making text LookRetarded
[1:44pm] <GreenReaper> and thanks to ~~, it is now the right URL
[1:44pm] <mindspillage> Hahahaha... that's one of the things a *lot* of people say they like about MediaWiki -- not having to use CamelCase.
[1:44pm] <MessedRocker> CamelCase has VenerealDisease :(
[1:44pm] <MarkDilley> Well I think MediaWiki has CameCase and free links.
[1:45pm] <MessedRocker> I don't think we have both
[1:45pm] <MarkDilley> [[CamelCase]]
[1:45pm] <MarkDilley> works
[1:45pm] RMF|away is now known as RMF|.
[1:45pm] <mindspillage> (I hate it for one-word page titles... abominations like UuU.)
[1:45pm] <MessedRocker> That's because for a while Wikipedia ran on CamelCase
[1:45pm] <MarkDilley> becasue it is the link language that is important to me
[1:45pm] <MessedRocker> then we changed and we had to run a program to convert our thousands of articles into normal words
[1:46pm] <MarkDilley> That is Wikipedia - yes
[1:46pm] <MessedRocker> and the reason why [[CamelCase]] is in CamelCase is because that's how it's spelled
[1:46pm] <MarkDilley> ?
[1:46pm] <mindspillage> Wikia doesn't use it partially because our audience isn't people who are used to it...
[1:47pm] <MarkDilley> so all wikia wikis don't use it?
[1:47pm] <GreenReaper> Yep.
[1:47pm] <MessedRocker> I want to drive on the Autobahn :(
[1:47pm] <MarkDilley> is that policy
[1:47pm] Diva_ joined the chat room.
[1:47pm] <MessedRocker> I want to go 125 miles per hour
[1:47pm] <GreenReaper> It's just the default.
[1:47pm] <MarkDilley> so I could use camel case as link language on a wikia wiki
[1:48pm] <mindspillage> Hm... It's not official policy, I suppose... there's no official manual of style.
[1:48pm] <GreenReaper> Speaking for WikiFur he vast majority of our users would be confused by the fact that they would have to use CamelCase to link to articles.
[1:48pm] <GreenReaper> http://furry.wikia.com/wiki/Help:Furry_Book_of_Style :-)
[1:49pm] <mindspillage> Heh. I have a furry book. (A journal thing, covered in fuzzy fabric.)
[1:50pm] <MarkDilley> I glanced at the page and ran into the issue I have with forcing freelinking.
[1:50pm] <MessedRocker> can safely assume that the Medicine Wikia is dead
[1:50pm] <GreenReaper> For now.
[1:51pm] <GreenReaper> If anyone wants to grab it . . .
[1:51pm] <MarkDilley> [[Manual of Style]] or [[Manual of style]] or [[manual of style]] or [[manual of Style]]
[1:51pm] <MarkDilley> [[StyleManual]] works better for me.
[1:51pm] <GreenReaper> It's a title, so Manual of Style
[1:51pm] <mindspillage> Redirects are cheap, easy, and fun. :-)
[1:51pm] <MessedRocker> [[manual of style]] and [[Manual of style]] are the same thing
[1:51pm] <MessedRocker> because the initial letter is always capitalized
[1:52pm] <mindspillage> is in favor of AsManyDangedRedirectsAreReasonablyNecessary
[1:53pm] <mindspillage> And also of losing track of sentences and thus omitting words. :-P
[1:53pm] <MessedRocker> I'm a fan of LookAtMeImUsingCamelCaseDoesntThisSentenceLookRetardedWatchHowManyLinesThisPageTitleTakesUp
[1:54pm] <GreenReaper> RealPeople prefer RealWords. :-)
[1:55pm] <MarkDilley> It's a title, so Manual of Style  -- because the initial letter is always capitalized
[1:55pm] <MarkDilley> who defines "title"
[1:55pm] <MarkDilley> so here we are, going crazy with the discussion.
[1:55pm] <GreenReaper> I'm not sure quite what you mean . . . standard english definitions?
[1:55pm] <MessedRocker> GreenReaper: I'd like to grab it, problem is I would want to start over again
[1:56pm] <MessedRocker> And use my own rules
[1:56pm] <GreenReaper> Oh, I'm not really suggesting that others use it.
[1:56pm] <MarkDilley> I am a fan of [[Look at me ImUsingCamelCaseDoesntThisSentenceLookRetardedWatchHowManyLinesThisPageTitleTakesUp
[1:56pm] <GreenReaper> It's mostly adapted from Wikipedia.
[1:56pm] <MarkDilley> oops
[1:57pm] <MessedRocker> What I am particularly interested in is making an index of diseases, how to identify them, and how to treat them
[1:57pm] <MessedRocker> only using the best medical resources available to us amateurs
[1:57pm] <MessedRocker> and of course giant disclaimers
[1:57pm] <MarkDilley> I am a fan of [[Look at me I'm using free links doesn't this sentence look retarded watch how many lines this page title takes up]]
[1:58pm] <GreenReaper> With MediaWiki's CSS and JS support, you could make a giant disclaimer that prevented anyone from even looking at the site until they clicked through it.
[1:59pm] <MarkDilley> MessedRocker - do you see that your point ... it...
[1:59pm] <MessedRocker> SentenceStructure is allowed in CamelCase?
[1:59pm] <MessedRocker> <GreenReaper> With MediaWiki's CSS and JS support, you could make a giant disclaimer that prevented anyone from even looking at the site until they clicked through it. << I'd be more interested in something in the Sitenotice
[1:59pm] <MessedRocker> Because I'm not much of a coder
[1:59pm] <MarkDilley> SentanceStructure - pleas let me know what you mean
[1:59pm] <MarkDilley> I am not a coder at all
[2:00pm] <GreenReaper> Well, MediaWiki:Sitenotice, then.
[2:00pm] <GreenAway> QuickStats by mIRCStats - The most active people today: MarkDilley: 38 lines, Codeine: 34, GreenReaper: 33, MessedRocker: 31, mindspillage: 27, Splarka: 26, sans: 18, Nidonocu: 7, Olipro: 3, Angela: 3
[2:00pm] <GreenAway> mIRCStats update for #wikia complete! Check out the stats at http://www.zen9361.zen.co.uk/sdstats/wikia/wikia.html
[2:00pm] <GreenReaper> though we have all the language versions of that redirected to Template:Sitenotice
[2:01pm] <MessedRocker> MarkDilley: That coder statement of mine was a continuation of my sitenotice statement
[2:02pm] <MarkDilley> MessedRocker:thanks
[2:02pm] <MessedRocker> By the way, if you were to claim to be a doctor on my wiki (when it starts up), you'd get indefinitely blocked until you could provide proof
[2:02pm] DavidGerard left the chat room. (Connection timed out)
[2:03pm] <mindspillage> I don't really see a problem with using CamelCase on a Wikia, if that's what the whole community wanted, but people used to other freelinking wikis -- which Wikia resembles -- might find it difficult to adjust to.
[2:06pm] <MarkDilley> I like the compromise I suggested as a style [[CamelCase and or free links]] - but I don't know if that will be acceptable to the other parties
[2:08pm] MoneySign is now known as MonkeySign.
[2:08pm] <GreenReaper> I just see it as unnecessary.
[2:08pm] <GreenReaper> It used to be that way because that was the way that it had to be done, because there was no other way of linking.
[2:08pm] MonkeySign is now known as MoneySign.
[2:10pm] jqsjqs__ joined the chat room.
[2:10pm] jqsjqs left the chat room. (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[2:10pm] jqsjqs__ is now known as jqsjqs.
[2:10pm] <MarkDilley> I think it is valuable to think of CamelCase as a link language.
[2:11pm] <GreenReaper> I think one big reason *not* to use CamelCase is that nobody searches for it.
[2:12pm] <GreenReaper> If all the links to and all the titles of your articles are in camelcase, they are far less likely to turn up on google.
[2:17pm] <MarkDilley> I actually think the one big reason to use CamelCase is that people will search for it - that is how LinkLanguage works
[2:17pm] <MarkDilley> or, on google, they are the number one hit, using link language
[2:20pm] <MarkDilley> Not much room to wiggle here, maybe it is best I give up the wikia I am working on and let the other administrator make it their own.